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Why Does The 5.3 Have No Thrust Off The Line At Fu

XhaustedZ71

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
39
Location
Queens New York
I have a 2003 Z71 with 3.73 gears and a Power Programmer. For Some Reason At full throttle Start's the Truck just cant get Moving until 3000 rpm's then it Spool's up all the way to redline at a steady Pull. Im Willing to try anythnig that may help this and Possibly help me perform a BrakeStand without it having to be in the rain lol!
 
Yep, torque management. Also, you can not do a brake stand due to the electronic throtle. Maybe 11H can shed some more light on this one too!

Wiki
 
I've also wondered this as well. ?I'd think the Av would have enough torque to get the tires spinning from a dead stop. ?Can you change/remove this "option"?

Please enlighten us.
 
I have the same complaint, i know we can reprogram the computer to eliminate Tm, but what about the warranty, since i opted for the 100,000 mile factory warrenty, will it be voided? ???
 
If you use the HPP3 it can restore you factory programing so the dealer shoud never know you used it.
 
I have the same problem no spinning wheels... of the line that what i'm looking for. maybe a Supercharger!
 
Avialanche said:
I read somewhere in one of forums that the hpIII programmer does not totally eliminate Torque management, please explain. ?
? ?
The last I knew the HPP3 doesn't affect the dreaded torque management in the least - most of the "off the shelf" units do not touch the tables that control TM - restructuring the TM, no matter how obnoxious is not for the faint of heart - this removes a substantial amount of the driveline protection that is built in to the vehicle.

Having said that, mine is removed. ^^
 
I thank gandolphxx is right on this one, in my dealing with the HPP3 there is no mention of TManagement in the paper work at all.
I have the same problem at take off. Seems a little better now that i added the air intake, but still is a dog right off the line............. That is why i usually play with the ricers from 30 mph on up...... ;D
I would be dead meat if i tried to take a 3000 pounder off of the line.............. , but I thougth only the 2500's had the torque management........Learn something new every night.
zeeya
 
zeeya2000 said:
I thank gandolphxx is right on this one, in my dealing with the HPP3 there is no mention of TManagement in the paper work at all.
I have the same problem at take off. Seems a little better now that i added the air intake, but still is a dog right off the line............. That is why i usually play with the ricers from 30 mph on up...... ;D
I would be dead meat if i tried to take a 3000 pounder off of the line.............. , but I thougth only the 2500's had the torque management........Learn something new every night.
zeeya
Actually the 5.3L and 6.0L probably suffer more from TM than the "Rat" due to their higher RPM limit and where they make the most usable torque. >:D

I would hasten to add that I would be leary of removing TM with the existing 4L60E. :6:
 
I have been told by Pro street performance that their programmer, the Proflash, completely removes TM. Also, it copys the original PC info for reboot before you take it to the dealer with a blown tranny! ;D
 
In addition to the TQ Management issue, you must consider that the 1500 AV weighs 6,000#'s with no driver and it is a little 327 that is cammed/inletted higher than what we have been used to in the older small blocks (350) (That's how it can make 285HP vs. 255HP/'98 350 Vortec) ... The 5.3 has less Volumetric Effeciency down low compared to the torquey 350's of old ... 4.10's help the 5.3 immensely on bottom ... Plus the oem intake and exhaust really do a good job of maximizing bottom end response ... Opening up inlet and exhaust has shown to move the TQ/HP curves up the RPM scale a little ... IMHO

Saying that, I'll tell you how to "get passed" TQ Management... Don't stomp it from a dead stop ... You will feel it most then... (TQ management pulls timing away when certain abusive maneuvers are commited... and for a split second right before a shift) ... Roll into the gas quickly so when you are going about 15MPH, it is floored... Time it to where you can do this well; you will be surprised at how it jumps out ... Also, run tow/haul from the line, then once you're floored at about 20MPH, turn it off... I have realized when T/H is activated, the tranny responds quicker from a stop ...

Another critical thing is if you do exhaust work; choose wisely, as the wrong choice can take away some low RPM TQ and responsiveness off-idle ... ?>:D

Good Luck !

11H
 
I can spin the back tires of our '02 Z66 with the 3:73 from a stop, but the more I drive it, the more I notice that it really doesn't have the grunt I thought it did. Normal, daily speeds, it's a monster and will fly, but when the pedal is deep into the carpet, it seems like it runs out of steam.

Many a time, I've had it fully into the carpet, but it felt like I was only giving it half. Of course, this is without a single mod, and it's still a hell of a lot quicker than our 300M. But that car was an OHC, and though it was dead at lower speeds, it loved to rev and run like a freight train well past 100. Too bad I never got to do it myself :p .
 
Really doesn't matter what you do to increase HP the computer won't let the engine devolop too much power from a dead stop. 11H said it right, roll away from a stop and stomp it at 10mph or over.

kw
 
And practice rolling the throttle. You'll be amazed at how proficent you become. And don't forget to turn off the traction control.
 
Adding NOS will get you the 1/4 mile numbers but is not practical for a daily driver.

Ast to the 4L60E - you would need to consider a substantial rebuild - higher stall converter, new clutches and strengthened components + the rear end. All things considered pretty pricey for a daily driver.
 
I will have to agree with rolling into the throttle. Even with 4.10 gears & the big block you can see a big difference in how it leaves the line
 
In comparision to a TH350 375 or 400 where does the stock 1500 tranny rate as far as design toque handing ability? ? ?

The 4L60E (electronic 700R4) is actually about 25-30% larger than the TH350, and about 40% less in size than the TH400 ...

I have been doing a lot of research on the 4L60E, and the various electronic trannies lately just to find out if what is always inferred as the 4L60E being a P.O.S. weak slush box... I mean a lot of research ! ... ?>:D

The 4L60E tranny is a Medium Duty tranny period... With some good understanding of how to treat an automatic and what not to do with it, you will not likely have any issues IMHO (don't shock load it too much) ... To put it into perspective, the Ford and Dodge offerings in the half tons are not even close to the 4L60 in longevity ... With proper maintenance, a 4L60 should go 100,000 plus easy ... The Ford trannies will do on the average of 50-60K and Dodge trannies can have big issues as early as 30-40K ... These are all on the average; some folks will get lucky and not be so lucky... A lot of the recent issues that have hindered the reputation of the 4L60 is when GM made it electronic in 1995 ... They had issues in '96 due to this also ... 1997 was finally fairly clear and when they went with a 2 piece case/seperate full bell housing in 1998, they really got on the ball ... If GM was losing money on the 4L60, they wouldn't put it in a 6,000 pound truck and give the truck an 8,000 pull capacity ... Of recent, GM has gone with a variable lock-up strategy by the addition of an INDESTRUCTABLE converter clutch ... It varies lock-up based on driveline load and engine RPM/vehicle speed ...

The 4L60E as equipped in the avalanche is factory rated for up to 360 Ft Lbs ... The RPO code for the 4L60 is M30 ... There is a beefier version of the 4L60E called the 4L65E ... It is a little different, and is found behind the 6.0 engine in the GMC C3, Denali, H2, SSR, and Escalade 4x4's ... The main differences are an added 3-4 clutch, the use of 5 pinion planetaries vs. 4 in the 4L60E, and I think the input shaft is stronger ... There's a couple other things, but that's the main stuff ... The 4L65E is rated from the factory to handle another 20 Lb Ft of torque... The gear box max torque is 670 LB Ft for the 65E and 610 for the 60E ... It is interesting to note that the max RPM for the 60E is 6100 RPM and the 65E is 5600 ... I wonder why ... Both trannies share the same 300mm converter ...

Anyways, to finish this bunk... The 4L60E is a good tranny, but it will not take hard abuse in a 6,000# truck... The newest versions don't have heat/cooling issues as they once did, but they now continue to have minor hard part issues when they decide to give up the ghost ... They are IMHO at their max duties in the 1500 avalanche, and I wish they put the 4L65E's in them instead along with the 6.0 ... Rumor was circulating when the av was a concept, that it was going to get the 6.0 as a base engine, but apparently the production output on the 6.0 was not up to the roll-out numbers chevy needed due to the new lines being offered by GMC and Cadillac ... Shucks ... The good news is, that when the 4L60E breaks, there are a plethora of aftermarket companies that offer good parts at good prices... Whatever you do, don't do a stock re-build unless it's a warranty job... If you are gonna foot the bill on a rebuild, it is better to spend a little more for a strong rebuild... It's not that much more to do her up bulletproof ...

Some things you can do to take some strain off the beast is to increase shift quickness/firmness with a programmer or by running tow/haul all the time, don't lug the truck at all whether you are pulling or not, and if you are pulling in rolling terrain or mountains, run tow/haul and 3rd gear only ... And reduce your speed ... I would also consider it good measure to install the GM auxillary cooler for $75... As the 1500 has none... Maybe a Denali or 2500 cluster with the trans temp gauge too !

Oh, almost forgot... Drop the pan every 20-25K and install a new filter and clean the pan well... And don't overfill... This alone helps a lot... If you take the truck to have a full evac done, MAKE SURE YOU STAND AND WATCH... MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING... I have little faith in this procedure vs. dumping the pan every 20K ... IMHO ... ?>:D

11H
 
gandolphxx said:
Adding NOS will get you the 1/4 mile numbers but is not practical for a daily driver.

Ast to the 4L60E - you would need to consider a substantial rebuild - higher stall converter, new clutches and strengthened components + the rear end. All things considered pretty pricey for a daily driver.
Thanks gandolphxx, can you throw out a ballpark number on this. If I go forward with the SC I am concerned that if I 'use' it at all I'll blow up the rear end.
 
As always, 11H has stepped forward and provided a plethora of information on the topic at hand.

I'm looking at the transmission as the next target of my current modding frenzy - that is, after I get the TOGs and the Predator in.

I'm thinking of going with the TransGo shift kit and probably also replacing the servos. Looks like I should include a filter change while I'm at it. I haven't decided however whether I should go with a converter at the same time.

Should I think about doing all of this at once? Should I consider doing anything else while I have the tranny open? I may have to wait a little longer to scrounge up the money to do it all at once. If I can get away with doing it in stages, what order should I go with?

I'd really like to improve the shifts (it sounds as though none of the programmers would change it enough on their own for my liking). I generally dislike auto transmissions as the shifts always seem sloppy and they never seem to be in the gear I'd like them to stay/shift to. I also would like to avoid destroying my transmission as I gradually work at tweaking power out of the 5.3 (something I fortunately haven't done for quite some time).

I'm very close to two years in the Avalanche and I've never kept a vehicle more than two years. This will be my first (it's actually the first I've enjoyed enough to keep past two years - well, actually the second, the first was stolen before I got to two years). I'd like to be able to keep it for several more years without having to spend a lot of dollars fixing the problems caused by the dollars I've already spent.

Sorry about the babbling.
 
Grrrrrrrrr This Trany is the same one Found in the Camaro Z28's with the LT-1 Engine, They didnt have luck with them in those cars cause they simply Robbed the power from the engine, You took a LT-1 powered Camaro with a auto and put it against the 6 speed, That 6 Speed was CONSIDERABLY faster, And Im not even talking about professional speed shifting, the Auto just sucks the life out of the powerband. Another thing, I noticed this Tranny after driving it hard starts to shift funny, like the gears stick and it dont shift like it normally should. I was leary about getting the truck with this tranny . I heard nothing but bad things about this Tranny. Like the Fact that its very likely to overheat and slip. I also heard that these tranny's start to whine and click after 20,000 miles. Im already starting to have this tranny stick on me when it makes its final downshift, The truck starts to lug forward as if i have a manual and i didnt push the clutch down when im coming to a stop. I have the power programmer and and i have it programmed for the firm shift's and i think after reving it out and the transmission shifting at a higher RPM is starting to give me troubles. Anyone ever notice how the shifts would sometimes be caught in limbo if you are on the gas and let go, then got back on it???? Well Im going to the dealer on Tuesday and i hope they can take care of it and fix this thing!!
Ill keep you posted!
 
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