Any Ideas On PPIII Low E Error?

I?ve tried 2 Hypertech PPIII programmers and 3 batteries and am still getting the ?low battery error, recharge battery and try again? message when I try to install the programmer. Hypertech?s engineer (escaladed past tech support) suggested I have the dealer ship check the PCM. Yesterday I brought my AV into the dealership and had them test the charging systems and check the PCM. They did and both tested fine, no codes in the PCM and they said the battery tested good too.

I?m sure all current drawing devices are off (parking brake on to stop DRLs, dome over ride, AC and fan off, radio off no CD in player, seat belt buckled). I have even tried pulling all the accessory fuses but get the same results. I also checked for pushed pins in the connectors and held my lucky rabbit?s foot during the install to no avail.

Any ideas?

JRyther said:

?The only other thing that I can maybe think of is maybe the voltage regulator. ?
Jon

Click to expand...

I was hoping the dealer would find something wrong like that but they didn?t. ?If it was the DLC (Data Link Connector)I don?t think they could have pulled codes off the PCM but I don?t know if their diagnostic reader uses the power off the DLC (pin 16) or if it has its own power source. ?My DLC only has 5 pins used out of the 16 available in the connector. ?I guess it is a 232 or 422 type of connection and one of the other pins is ground and the other 3 for data (RD, TD, DTR). ?

Inside the PPIII is a connector for a 9V battery in it. ?They had me pull the back off the first programmer I had to make sure there wasn?t one in it as it is for use only on some of the older Camaros that don?t have a power source at the DLC. ?I asked it I should put a battery in it and try it but they said no it could make things much worse (guess that means toast the PCM).

Other than trying it on another AV to see if the same low battery message comes on I?m out of ideas and so is Hypertech. ?

One latest plead for help!

The PPIII uses pin 16 on the DLC (Data Link Connector) for power. I?m reading 12.45 volts on a cold battery that?s been sitting in the parking lot for 10 hours. Doesn't look low to me.

Any one out there in cyber AV land have a DMM that they can compare voltages at the DLC from there AV?

Johnny_D said:

Any one out there in cyber AV land have a DMM that they can compare voltages at the DLC from there AV?

Click to expand...

I read 12.51 volts on mine, measuring between pin 16, and pin 4 for ground.

It sounds just a tad low from what I would expect, I seem to remember a fully charged lead-acid battery being something more like 13 volts, and 14.5 volts to charge. But I could be wrong. A 12 volt battery is really more than 12 volts.

-- SS

Johnny,,,

Go under hood, with ignition key OFF, and pull ECM 1, and ECM B ... Turn key to ON ... Wait a few minutes ... (you should see the driver info center start to cycle though various screens) ... After several minutes, turn key OFF ... Replace the 2 fuses ... (one should be 10a and one should be 20a) ...

This resets the PCM to oem adapt, and erases "soft" memory stores ... (will not erase core version) ... The HPP3 should allow programming down to 11.5 Volts ... Try again ...

If this does not work, you might want to "devise" a way to get the dealer to re-flash the PCM ... If you can do this in a way that is "kosher" I would do it...

This might be a sign of a future issue with the PCM ... When the HPP3 starts programming, it "closes" all inputs to the PCM so to speak so there are no interruptions... The HPP3 might be reading an un-closable input in the PCM as a low volt condition...

Something is happening while the HPP3 is trying to interact, and it in turn is mis-diagnosing the issue... If this is your second programmer, it is not likely the culprit... I would try doing another 2002 truck, and see if the problem arises...

This is really a stupid question, but have you tried more than 1 cable? Also, check two things... 1. If there are any mis-aligned prongs in the DLC, and if any are loose... You might be getting good voltage when probing, but when you make hard contact with the DLC, it might be pushing on something ...

Personally, I think it might be a short in the DLC circuit or a bad DLC all together ...

I have met many a mechanic that SAY they hook-up to the PCM, but if there is no DTC, it just might have sat in back for several hours, and the tech wrote it off as OK on the ticket ... I'm not saying this happened, but I would get a second opinion or even a third before I made up my mind ...

Although, you might have to "devise" a way to MAKE them read the PCM ... (like maybe intentionally pulling the lead on the MAF sensor or something?) Bottom line is, if you bring it in with a stored DTC, you KNOW FOR SURE they hooked up...



11H

11H said:

Johnny,,,

Go under hood, with ignition key OFF, and pull ECM 1, and ECM B ... Turn key to ON ... Wait a few minutes ... (you should see the driver info center start to cycle though various screens) ... After several minutes, turn key OFF ... Replace the 2 fuses ... (one should be 10a and one should be 20a) ...

This resets the PCM to oem adapt, and erases "soft" memory stores ... (will not erase core version) ... The HPP3 should allow programming down to 11.5 Volts ... Try again ...

Click to expand...

11H

Thank you for input and time I appreciate it (you too SS). I will try pulling ECM1 (VCM/PCM fuse) and ECM B but I think I got the same effect from when I pulled the battery overnight and half the day last weekend. It must have cleared the soft memory as I noticed a big difference in how it drove afterwards as it was sluggish and I had to GLH (go like hell) for a few days to reprogram the dynamic memory. But I'll try the fuses.

If this does not work, you might want to "devise" a way to get the dealer to re-flash the PCM ... If you can do this in a way that is "kosher" I would do it...

Click to expand...

As the Superchips programmer I had a month ago crashed when it started the write sequence (it stored the stock PCM) I thought some of the code could have been erases even though it has been driving fine

When I brought it to the dealer I told them the message display had been flashing codes but that I didn't record them. That was to get them hook up to the PCM & DCL and hopefully find a problem if it is bad. I didn't think it would be a good idea to say, ?I can't get this thing chipped would you check the PCM?". They said they checked the PCM and it was fine and didn't have any codes in it. Now if they did so I don't know.

Something is happening while the HPP3 is trying to interact, and it in turn is mis-diagnosing the issue... If this is your second programmer, it is not likely the culprit... I would try doing another 2002 truck, and see if the problem arises...

Click to expand...

I agree on trying it on another AV, any volunteers around Houston (I?ll buy lunch!). You have nothing to fear as I can cycle the programmer in practice mode so it will not write anything to your PCM.

This is really a stupid question, but have you tried more than 1 cable? Also, check two things... 1. If there are any mis-aligned prongs in the DLC, and if any are loose... You might be getting good voltage when probing, but when you make hard contact with the DLC, it might be pushing on something ...

Click to expand...

They sent a different cable with the 2nd programmer; I marked the first one so I could tell if they sent the same one. And I made sure the serial numbers were different on each unit.

I have checked the DLC for pushed pins and when I connect to it I even hold the back of the connector to be sure the pins aren't getting pushed back and also do a visual on them.

I have met many a mechanic that SAY they hook-up to the PCM, but if there is no DTC, it just might have sat in back for several hours, and the tech wrote it off as OK on the ticket ... I'm not saying this happened, but I would get a second opinion or even a third before I made up my mind ...

Although, you might have to "devise" a way to MAKE them read the PCM ... (like maybe intentionally pulling the lead on the MAF sensor or something?) Bottom line is, if you bring it in with a stored DTC, you KNOW FOR SURE they hooked up...
11H ?

Click to expand...

I may have to try doing this to force a code in the PCM and then see if they do pull it off.

Thanks again, I'll try the fuses and let you know. If you have any other ideas please let me know.

Johnny,,,

I forgot you were one of the SC crash-ees ... I would almost in fact bet YOU lunch that something is up in connection with something the SC did...

It's just too coincidental... The techs more than likely if at all, tried to communicate with the PCM, and MAYBE ran a basic revision call-up ... That probably would not diagnose something corrupt in the code... Hell, when that SC went "teats" up, it might have caused some hardware damage... Who knows... A GM software engineer could mess with it for hours, and not find prob.

I would tell SC that their POS is causing drivability problems with your truck, and take them up on a free software re-write... After all, they might be the cause...

If your truck is running, and not setting codes, I doubt you will find a tech or anyone at dealer level that will find it... Most techs have a basic knowledge of obd, and all they do is revisions, basic troubleshooting, and reset/pull codes... If a PCM goes belly up or acts funny, they will just R & R it... It's too time consuming for Joe tech to try to figure out why... He's on the money clock, and doesn't care... Just get that next 5 hour labor rate in here next boss ...

I would try leaning on SC for a fresh start first... It doesn't cost them anything but an hour of time to re-write a PCM...

If you get it back from them, and AV still acts funny, I would consider hitting the PCM with 120 Volts of house current... (Just kidding) ... LOL ... Never let on to the service dept. that you know what you are doing, and your automotive abilities... Trust me, if you act stupid, and ask dumb questions, you will not believe some of the things you will be told for appeasement ...


11H

11H, I agree that all fingers are starting to point to the SuperChips (especially the middle finger) crashed install.
I don?t trust them enough to send them the PCM and be without my AV for who knows how long and not to mention concerns if they would even do it right. ?

At this point I think I?ll check with the dealership and see what they will charge to reburn the PCM.

Johnny,,,

At this point I think I?ll check with the dealership and see what they will charge to reburn the PCM.

Click to expand...

I would go to dealer as LAST resort .... You don't want to have to explain WHY you want it re-flashed ... There are all kinds of checks and balances the dealer does to document an issue like that with your truck...

I would call Z Industries and tell them your concerns, and they will re-flash your PCM for pretty cheap ... Probably CHEAPER than the dealer... That way, you will not alert mr. warranty record of the issue...

Here's what I PERSONALLY would do:

Now seriously, find a wrecked 2002 5.3 with same PCM part #, and buy it... If you pay good $$$ it's worth it... Like from a junk yard or whatever... There's avenues for this stuff, you just gotta look hard ... Send that one to Z Industries for a performance program tailored to your mods ... Then, when you get that one back from Z Ind., put it in AV, and enjoy new hi-perf PCM ... Send oem "bad" apple PCM to Z-Industries for oem flash with your VIN ... Send HP3 back for refund ... Now if you do this right, you should be able to have 2 PCMs, one bad ass, and one oem ... All for less than the price of a HP3 and dealer re-flash ...

Plus, if you ever need to tailor the hi-perf unit to another mod, you can send it back to Z Industries for cheap...

This would be an opportune time to get rid of that TQ Management... Use this as a opportunity to better the situation...

11H

OK, I will ask the dumb question - where is a link to Z Industries - who are they?

Thanks, inquiring minds want to know

G,,,

This is off the top of my head, but I don't know if they ever had a site ... The dealings I had were over the phone through ProDyno here in AZ ... Here is a link from the C5 forum regarding their services overview...

http://www.corvetteforum.com/reviews/viewsubtopic.php?SubTopicID=497&TopicID=20


I have had R. Zimmer do a couple LT-1 Camaro PCM's and I got around 20 HP on the Dyno ... If I didn't need OBDII, we could have gotten almost 45 HP ... Just with headers and a program ... Although LT-1 would not have passed AZ emissions ...

11H

Tried the fuses but got the same results, it was worth a try. ?I'll look into Z-industries next week, thanks the info.

JohnnyD

Did you ever get your HPP3 to work? ?I'm now having the same problem with my 03. ?I just received my second HPP3 from Hypertech, and like you I'm getting the same message. ?I called Hypertech this morning and they told me to take the truck to the dealer for routine servicing, and they should "automatically" reflash the memory just to make sure it has the lastest software. ?My truck was manufactured in January. ?I asked if there would be any newer software, and the tech noted that for the GM 4.3 engine GM once made 6 software changes over the course of 90 days. ?I'm due to take the truck in for a few minor warranty fixes, so I guess I'll follow his advice unless you or someone else has a better idea.

PS - I have not done any other programming to this vehicle. ?It should be totally stock.