Propane Alternative?

jkailj · May 25, 2006

I received a coupon to convert my truck or car to propane. I clicked on their website www.afs-ok.com, but could not find enough info. What are the MPG differences between this and gas? How about HP as I tow. Also what is the cost difference, so how much will I save over gas? I am going to ask them about it today probably but I want a third party opinion of course too. Doubtfull I would do this, but it is something to look into. Also it would be harder to fill up in the middle of nowhere. Anyone have some good info on this? Thanks, Jason

sperry · May 25, 2006

Propane tends to run the same. HP, torque and so-on. This is per one test car of a fleet where I had driven the same (Taurus :9:

) gasoline ones.

There was a LNG smaller Furd but I hadn't tried it then to compare. I hear it's a bit less power, but not that bad.

LPG is cheaper than gasoline but I don't know how the road tax is applied.

sennister · May 25, 2006

Prime Power said:
I received a coupon to convert my truck or car to propane. I clicked on their website www.afs-ok.com, but could not find enough info. What are the MPG differences between this and gas? How about HP as I tow. Also what is the cost difference, so how much will I save over gas? I am going to ask them about it today probably but I want a third party opinion of course too. Doubtfull I would do this, but it is something to look into. Also it would be harder to fill up in the middle of nowhere. Anyone have some good info on this? Thanks, Jason

As for finding stations one thing to check on is if this is a conversion where you can no longer run gas or is this more of a hybrid type set up where you have a switch that can be flipped. One way for Propane and the other for regular gas. I looked at their page real quick and I don't see all that much info. They do mentioned some modifications to the engine compartment and some added components but they shouldn't prevent the truck from running on gas so I would think this is a setup where you can run on more than one fuel type. (Gas and Propane)

As for the tax situation. I don't know this for sure but I have seen delivery trucks filling up at a local u-haul that is listed in the fuel station locator list on thier site. I know that just because a place sells propane does not mean that they are set up to refill a vehicle's tank. I would think that the locations that are approved for filling vehicle tanks would also have the tax thing figured out. They would likely tack on so many cents per pound or however it is pumped out. It isn't like you can take your regular 20lb or 40 lb gas grill tank and hook it up to your AV. Well you might be able to but I would think that would be tax evasion as you wouldn't pay the road use tax for that gas. It would be kind of like if you have a Duramax and you went to a farmer and filled up with his diesel that was purchased for use in the farm equipment. They do not pay for the road use tax either. With Diesel some times it is dyed so that officials can tell that you were running non-taxed diesel in the truck. I don't think LP can be dyed.

sennister · May 25, 2006

Check out this link...

CLICK ME

In this discussion there was a guy from Holland that has an AV that has been converted to a Propane system. He did state that he can run either gas (petrol) or LPG (Propane). Basically flip a switch. He said that the engine starts on regular gas and once warmed up he switches to propane. I would think this compnay that you mentioned uses the same system as it mentioned on thier site that they use the hot coolant to boil the LPG into gas to be injected into the cylinders. It would likely freeze up if you were to try and drive the truck on propane right away. More so if it was humid out. Anyhow it sounds like in his truck that the Propane tanks were mounted in place of his spare tire.

sperry · May 25, 2006

Must be the cold there. Like an alcohol & Diesel problem. The propane car I drove on occasion started right up when it was somewhat cold out. (Cold in SoCal is the high 30's)

I buy Ag Diesel for my generator and rented heavy eq. But it doesn't go into any road vehicles.

sennister · May 25, 2006

sperry said:
Must be the cold there. Like an alcohol & Diesel problem. The propane car I drove on occasion started right up when it was somewhat cold out. (Cold in SoCal is the high 30's)

I buy Ag Diesel for my generator and rented heavy eq. But it doesn't go into any road vehicles.

I think it would depend on how it worked. There is direct injection of liquid propane into the cylinders or the boiling the liquid into gas. From what I have read all the conversion kits in the US are the type where the liquid is boiled and then the gas is introduced into the engine. If it was an engine built to operate on LP then it may have been built to inject the liquid propane directly into the cylinder and then there would be no need to run on gas first. It would basically be just like what the fork lifts are like.

The website I looked at (LINK) said propane boils at -42.1* C at 1.013 bar. So as the liquid evaporates or boils it would cool the metal in the regulator would get very cold and things could ice up. So basically if using a conversion kit like this even in CA it could freeze up even in the summer. Granted I'm not sure what pressure the liquid is at when it is converted into a gas but that would raise the boiling point. But it would be possible.

sperry · May 26, 2006

No doubt the vehicle's cooling system would play into controlling that. But then again that's below what most antifreeze protection levels are.

alwatel · May 26, 2006

Yes propane is a very good alternative.
I drive a Z71 from 2002 and living in The Netherlands. It is on propane since I have bought it in 2003.
There are some things you should know:

You are loosing some horsepower (you will hardly notice it because there is enough left) and it will consume 8% more fuel because of the lower caloric weight of propane. But the price of propane is a third (overhere) in compare to normal.

You should change the valves to ones which can live with higher temperature. Normal fuel has a cooling effect because it is a liquid.

How does it works:
When you start your engine, it will start on normal gas. After a few minutes when the engine has heated up the system automatically changes over to propane. The propane needs a certain temperature to evaporate. When you are out of propane the system changes automatically back to normal. I have a small display with 4 green leds which shows you how many propane is left. It includes a button to put the system to manual.

I have a tank of 110 liter propane build in the bed just behind the backseats. You also can divide it into two tanks (left an right the spare wheel) under the car
An extra benefit is the amount of fuel (200 liter in total, normal plus propane)

You do not have to be afraid of security of the tanks. You can fill it maximal to 80%. And we drive this system in The Netherlands for over decades without any accidents.

Overall you will not notice weather the system is on propane or on normal and it has a lot environmental benefits

If there are questions please ask them and enjoy your ride

Alex