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EFILive Tune Results from BB

arizona-dave

SM 2010
Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I finally took the plunge a few weeks ago and bought the AutoCal w/Custom tuning support from Black Bear. Wasnt Cheap, but Ive got some results and details.

First a custom Tune takes time..a little more than I expected, but in that process, Ive now learned more about the way our trucks computers analyze the data from the various systems and make adjustments, and some of those things are really surprising.

The Biggest thing seems to be with the quality and REAL Octane level of the gas...I had "91 Octane" Chevron in my tank when I installed the new 89 and 91 custom tunes....and my first set of results about make me freak out. 0.1 seconds. Virtually nothing. Took a look at the data and sure as Sh!t the KR (Knock Reduction of Timing) was running 5 to 8 degrees retarding...Crazy! Called up Justing at BB and sent him new run data files, he reviewed and told me every time he sees an AZ data, the gas is crap. Suggested I keep that tune installed and simply do a 1 gallon blend of E85 into 5-6 gallons of 87. I was SURE this was not going to work.

To My surprise, it did work...got rid of 100% of the KR, and took a full .4 seconds off the 0-60 run time.

Anyway, learned more than just that, but it was the real humdinger of the whole thing....Below are some 0-60 run times which I spent hours and hours running...it was fun though!!!

All times done on Exact same stretch of Smooth, Level, Dry road at night at 60-65-deg F, same amount of gas in the tank, no other passengers or hauling junk, so weight of truck virtually identical in all runs.

0-60 times:

Per the Books: Edmunds/MotorTrend & AutoRooster.com
2007 5.3 W/4WD: 0-60: 8.9 secs
2007 6.0 W/4WD: 0-60: 8.8 secs

My Truck: (remember I have the 6.0 with 4.10 gears & 4WD - all stock except MSD Spark Pig Wires:
Pre-Shorty Headers: 0-60: 8.55-8.65 secs (probably better than the books cuz 4.10 vs 3.43 gears)
Aft-Shorty Headers: 0-60: 8.05-8.10 secs - -0.55 from Stock - NO Other changes
Shorts+CIA AirIntake: 0-60: 7.95-8.0 secs - -0.65 from Stock!!!

After Black Bear Tune, with Shorties and Air-Intake:
0-60: 7.60-7.65 - another .35 from pre-tune, and 1 Second Better than Stock.

Oh Yeah...I havnt installed the TCM tune yet to address shift points because I wanted to compare only engine and ECU tune changes, I will probably get better times with the BB tune once I install the SportTCM tune Will post those 0-60 times when done.
 
Good info arizona-dave.    (y)
 
Thanks!  (y)

I installed the TCM tunes today, didnt go extreme on them, just asked for 2 tunes, one for towing, and another with a little moe than half the Torque Mngmt turned down.

Sport Mode kicks pretty good...A little hard t be honest, but fun. I think it moves the shift points and also allows full redline RPM, which I honestly dont want to do. Shaved between .075 and .1 seconds on average.

The real surprise was the Tow TCM custom tune...which is the one im gunna stay with. Basically it removes some of the factory TM, and moves the shift points a little less than sports tune. 0-60: 7.40 seconds...And get this...I broke traction at 14mph for almost 0.5 seconds. So I could possibly get to around 7 seconds on a 0-60 run.

Also gotta say the new TCM mod feels much more responsive going from say 45-60, or 60-80 etc, and less Gmaing from a dead stop. One of my runs actually broke traction between gears at 45 mph, spiking up to 55 before regaining traction...Ive got 10+ wide Nitto tires, so not so easy to pull off with a heavy a$$ truck like these.

Gunna let these tunes settle in over the next week and will re-do tests and re-post.

I have SCOURED the forums and net in general for apples to apples comparisons...hopefully this info will help some other guys determine what they want. I was on the fence between Diable or a Nelson/BB tune...I really dont think Im gunna get much better than this without big-time internal engine changes, so in all, im pretty dang happy with the results so far.



MS03 2500 said:
Good info arizona-dave.     (y)
 
When I rebuilt my tranny I had it breaking traction on the 1-2 shift for about 10 days.  Around the 11th day instead of traction I broke the tranny's output shaft.
 
Great results!  I had similar results with tuning my Av with HPTuners.  It would just slightly break traction through 1st and chirp going into 2nd.  I put it back to full factory TM for longevity since I gave it to my son. I kept the new shift points because they helped with MPG. 

Your KR experience closely matches what I had to do to my tune.  In some areas stock is VERY aggressive (KR 4-6+) and in others very conservative.  The biggest change was adding 2+ to the V4 timing to allow it to stay engaged under a little more load
 
While I never did time trials, after getting a lift, bigger tires and gears, I felt like I needed to deploy a main sail to get some get up and go from a stop. After the BB tune, it doesn't have that problem anymore. I have the premium gas tune with a sport tune replacing the tow mode. I also have a lower octane tunes and tow tunes on the auto cal, should I need to tow or premium gas goes through the roof. $$ well spent.
 
I got the 4L70, and only doing these runs for pure performance comparisons...wont drive it like that regularly! :)

enoniam said:
When I rebuilt my tranny I had it breaking traction on the 1-2 shift for about 10 days.  Around the 11th day instead of traction I broke the tranny's output shaft.
 
Yep, I got those different combo options as well.

Funny thing is, the 87-88 Tune "Feels" better when driving, but 0-60 trials showed almost no difference to the factory tune...I think it has more to do with drivability, such as passing and going from 60-80 than it does 0-60.

I personally dont like 0-60 as the only measure of performance, but lacking a track and radar and all sorts of gizmos, its the only way I can pull apples-apples comps between the different tunes.

All I know is Im now a half-second faster than any 325 or 525 BMW out there, and they can Kiss my A$$ trying to get in front of me at lights of onto the freeway...LOVE IT!

avalanchedriver said:
While I never did time trials, after getting a lift, bigger tires and gears, I felt like I needed to deploy a main sail to get some get up and go from a stop. After the BB tune, it doesn't have that problem anymore. I have the premium gas tune with a sport tune replacing the tow mode. I also have a lower octane tunes and tow tunes on the auto cal, should I need to tow or premium gas goes through the roof. $$ well spent.
 
arizona-dave said:
I got the 4L70, and only doing these runs for pure performance comparisons...wont drive it like that regularly! :)

The 4L70 may be able to take what my 4L60 couldn't.

I also think the 2x output shaft on the 4L60 can't take this abuse as well as the 4x4 tranny output shaft, based upon how the previous owner of my son's truck had his chirping the tires, even on the 2-3 shift.
 
OK, got a new tune file from J over at BB which he kindly tweaked after looking at several new run data files I sent him...he actually did the tweaks without me asking cuz he said he saw some cool things in my data files.

End result: 7.32 seconds 0-60 !!! - thats just plain awesome. I know this doesnt equate to what Im looking for in towing, but it should stand to reason I will see a significant improvement on the towing ability of the engine under load. And around town, its just plain fun.

Some of the things he tweaked:

Throttle response time to pedal input
Knock Reduction Table based on me running a real 91+ Octane blend
A/F table

Im going to get the dual exhaust Cat-Back installed before I tow, and will run some 0-60's when I do that, just for pure comparison to see if there is ANY real performance gains to be made in that part of the system.

Anyway, I was not a believer in the custom/pro tunes until now, and I can easily now say I am very happy with the results. I would have been "happy" with .25-.35 seconds...What I ended up with was 0.70 seconds. double what I required.

I do wish I could tweak with the tune file myself at some point, but that might lead me down a dark path of screwing something up like burning a piston, so until I learn more, I will gladly stick with this setup. And BB has been pretty great, a tad slow at first, but that may have been cuz I ordered it immed following the new year, and im sure there was a back log of stuff after the holidays. Overall, very positive experience.
 
You've got me very curious as to what my 0-60 times are - I'll have to look some up off of my G-tech although I haven't used it since I changed the cam and SC pulleys so I'm sure it's quicker than what it was.  Weather here in Indiana though is anything but consistent day-to-day so it's harder to measure the small changes like doing a CAI or better flowing muffler.

Glad you are happy with getting the custom tune and thanks for sharing your results!  Looking forward to you cat-back report!
 
enoniam said:
You've got me very curious as to what my 0-60 times are - I'll have to look some up off of my G-tech although I haven't used it since I changed the cam and SC pulleys so I'm sure it's quicker than what it was.  Weather here in Indiana though is anything but consistent day-to-day so it's harder to measure the small changes like doing a CAI or better flowing muffler.

Glad you are happy with getting the custom tune and thanks for sharing your results!  Looking forward to you cat-back report!

My G-Tech runs with you several years ago were around 5.2 seconds. That was with mild brake torqueing. I believe flashing the stall while in 4X4 would probably provide the fastest 0-60 times for me.
 
5.2 sec's on an heavy beast of an Avalanche!!! what the heck are you running? Ahh I see...MagnaCharger...crap I cant compete with that..hehe

How has your tranny and rear diff been holding up with that much force?

I havnt tried in AUTO or 4x4 yet.


MyBigToy said:
My G-Tech runs with you several years ago were around 5.2 seconds. That was with mild brake torqueing. I believe flashing the stall while in 4X4 would probably provide the fastest 0-60 times for me.
 
arizona-dave said:
5.2 sec's on an heavy beast of an Avalanche!!! what the heck are you running? Ahh I see...MagnaCharger...crap I cant compete with that..hehe

How has your tranny and rear diff been holding up with that much force?

I havnt tried in AUTO or 4x4 yet.

Don't use Auto - I've been told you can tear things up since the front doesn't engage until things start slipping, which then puts a lot of stress on the front drivetrain when it engages. This came from PT.net, from people who know their stuff.

I had the tranny refreshed (hardened a little bit) when I added the stall. New premium frictions, HD2 shift kit and hardened separator plate, and billet servos. I don't dog the crap out of the truck so it's been holding up pretty well; I've probably got 30k miles on it since the refresh (60k miles with the supercharger installed, 80k miles total on the truck). On the flip side, I run it hard any time I want to, which is on a regular basis. I'm certainly not under any delusions that the tranny or rear end would hold up if I started running it hard all the time. I think the biggest reason I haven't had an issue yet is that I am traction limited, so as long as things are slipping instead of locking hard I'm OK.
 
MyBigToy said:
My G-Tech runs with you several years ago were around 5.2 seconds. That was with mild brake torqueing. I believe flashing the stall while in 4X4 would probably provide the fastest 0-60 times for me.

That was a fun ride, and the air temps probably weren't as favorable as the 60s as it was during the hot part of the day in St. Louis, on a Labor Day weekend.  :B:

I believe at that time I was pretty much just cammed and computer tuned.  Were the 5.2 times you remember before or after you changed your cam?
 
enoniam said:
That was a fun ride, and the air temps probably weren't as favorable as the 60s as it was during the hot part of the day in St. Louis, on a Labor Day weekend.   :B:

I believe at that time I was pretty much just cammed and computer tuned.  Were the 5.2 times you remember before or after you changed your cam?

I believe it was after the cam. It was possibly prior to my 3.0 pulley; if so, it was with the 3.25. I'd still like to find a cheap 2.8 pulley to swap in - should be good for roughly another 20 hp.
 
arizona-dave said:
Where did you get your underdrive pulley?

also..have you had any issues with PS or AC at idle?

It's a smaller pulley on the supercharger to turn it faster, not an underdrive pulley.

I believe enoniam had an underdrive pulley on prior to the install of the Vortec. I'm not sure if he still has it on.
 
MyBigToy said:
It's a smaller pulley on the supercharger to turn it faster, not an underdrive pulley.

I believe enoniam had an underdrive pulley on prior to the install of the Vortec. I'm not sure if he still has it on.

Yes, I ran an underdrive pulley for several years.  Put the original stock one back on when I had to pull the underdrive one last year to replace the cam.  Driving a supercharger with the underdrive pulley was not giving me much boost which was fine when I was first tuning for the supercharger but now I'm liking the non-underdriven supercharger!

Didn't have any issues with the power steering.  Bumped the AC idle speed some via HPTuners due to the alternator.  Truck didn't come with efans but I put fans in from an 05 silverado.  One comes on with the AC compressor, or if they are already running go from slow speed to high when the compressor kicks in.  Idling with lights on at night they would really dim when the compressor kicked on.  Upping the AC idle speed also made the AC cooler at idle too which was a nice bonus!

The crank underdrive pulley also came with an underdrive pulley for the alternator.  I tried that with the crank underdrive pulley but didn't run that way for too long.

I'm not sure but I probably got them through Summit.

I don't know if my underdrive crank would work on your newer truck.  If you'd like to give it a try I'd probably give it up for quite a bit less than I paid for it.  :B:  I'd be interested in what your results would be, assuming you'd post them as you've done for your tune and headers!
 
The underdrive pulley I used on my Lexus replaced the stock crank pulley, so was wondering about one for the Avalance...to be honest, I never felt a huge difference from it on the car, but still may be interesting.

That being said, I added the Gibson SS Cat-Back system this past weekend...for perfect, sounds great...no power gains...

Looks like the stock cat-back/muffler is designed for full N/A potential. Def didnt gain 25+ HP HAHA! But I really did it for sound and like the looks of dual out the sides.
 
arizona-dave said:
The underdrive pulley I used on my Lexus replaced the stock crank pulley, so was wondering about one for the Avalance...to be honest, I never felt a huge difference from it on the car, but still may be interesting.

That being said, I added the Gibson SS Cat-Back system this past weekend...for perfect, sounds great...no power gains...

Looks like the stock cat-back/muffler is designed for full N/A potential. Def didnt gain 25+ HP HAHA! But I really did it for sound and like the looks of dual out the sides.

I had the same system in aluminized on my truck, for close to 7 years, before it rusted through at the exhaust hangers behind the muffler. I liked it a lot. I did a lot of research and tried a Hooker Max-Flow that was supposed to not have resonance but it was bad on my setup. I added a 14" glass-pack to tone it down, which helped but not well enough. Rather than continue to chase good money after more bad results, I just went back to the stock system, which had been sitting in the garage rafters since originally installing the Gibson system. I got $100 for the Hooker setup and helped install it on JoelG1980's truck. He loves it, but his truck is stock.
 
7 years isnt too shabby, specially for aluminized, did good for ya. Mine being SS hopefully will last a while too.

My previous setup on my 05 was Magnaflow muffler and Aluminized welded pipes to Double Wall SS tips.

2 yrs in and the tips were rotting out, probably due to how much Ethanol is in the gas these days. The rest was still fine. The gibson setup uses SS clamp on tips, and where i was ademently against such types of things before, having watched "high-end" double-walls welded tips crack and fall apart, I felt these would suffice :)

I like the sound so far, its louder than stock, but toned down to where its not obnoxious and I dont wake the dead when starting the truck for midnight beer runs! HAHA (not that I ever really do such things)

Im throwing my stock system in the shed where it may be resurrected someday, along with all the other OEM stuff.

MyBigToy said:
I had the same system in aluminized on my truck, for close to 7 years, before it rusted through at the exhaust hangers behind the muffler. I liked it a lot. I did a lot of research and tried a Hooker Max-Flow that was supposed to not have resonance but it was bad on my setup. I added a 14" glass-pack to tone it down, which helped but not well enough. Rather than continue to chase good money after more bad results, I just went back to the stock system, which had been sitting in the garage rafters since originally installing the Gibson system. I got $100 for the Hooker setup and helped install it on JoelG1980's truck. He loves it, but his truck is stock.
 
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