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Author Topic: Expert advice  (Read 1537 times)

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HOFFandGOLDMAN

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Expert advice
« on: 01/04/12 11:31 PM »

Hello,

So here is what I am curious about.

I have  6 speed 2009 :B: Avalanche 5.3 L aluminum block, K and N 63 series cold air intake, Throttle body spacer (which basically does nothing just sounds cool), a single high flow magnaflow muffler (everything was cut off that will cause restriction of flow except the two main cats with sensors). Also I got a professional transmission tune for firmer and harder sifting and adjustment of shift points, the torque limiter removed, and a professional engine tune (the two tunes and the torque limiter bring removed costed me about $700 CAN).

I am curious where I will be sitting at for HP in my truck. I can only give myself a rough estimate, but I would appreciate your estimates as well.   

Also, was I wrong going with the tunes vs. getting a chip to increase my HP such as a edge or bully dog chip? Because I did had a bully dog in my truck before, but it didnt feel like it was doing enough justice  :E: 

Thanks,

Logan

(I really just wanna destroy my buddy in a race, he has a 4 spd 05 silverado 5.3L with same exhaust as me and a AFE intake as well as a bully dog tuner in his truck) LOL!  :4:
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2009 LT - Storm Gray - Leather - Sunroof - Leveling Kit

K&N 63 series cold air intake, Helix throttle body spacer

Single Magnaflow off-road performance exhaust, headers, catless

Performance drag custom engine tune + transmission tune (Westers Garage, Tilly Alberta.)

20" Custom Rims on 33's Cooper Zeon LTZ Tires

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zqzwgz.jpg

we_fly_high

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #1 on: 01/05/12 09:59 AM »

IMO the custom tune is always better, a handheld in most cases are canned tunes not for a specific vehicle but a wide range. Every vehicle is different so what's good for yours wont be the best for mine and custom is specific depending on how you did it. Who tuned your truck and how? You don't gain hp from a tune in most cases, it just frees up what's there!

I can't give you an estimate but you should get it on a dyno!

As for your buddy, keep in mind he doesn't have a 6000 lbs truck and you do! I wont be one to say it can't be done because I do all the time in mine but I have alot of work and money in mine.
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2004 Pewter/Black Cammed, Stalled, Tuned, SOLD
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HOFFandGOLDMAN

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #2 on: 01/05/12 04:18 PM »

Thanks man. Yeah the guy that does the tune does dynos as well but it costs a fair amount. As for the type of tune I want to say blackbear? not 100% sure. The guy that i got to do it is Westers Garage in Tilly, Alberta. He doses a lot of racing modifications and for guys and owns personally a couple corvettes a boss mustang and a drag car. SO i trust he knows what he is doing because he doses a lot of the modifications on computers and engines and i was referred to him by quite a few people.

But you really dont 'gain' any HP out of a tune? How does that work, because it increases better timing on all components of the engine is that not correct? And from what I understood when he talked to me about what he was going to do to my truck with the tune was that he could really increase performance and horsepower with his tune especially on the aluminum block vs the cast iron block. Thats just what i was told by him. I am not defending him i just want other professional opinions.

Logan     
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2009 LT - Storm Gray - Leather - Sunroof - Leveling Kit

K&N 63 series cold air intake, Helix throttle body spacer

Single Magnaflow off-road performance exhaust, headers, catless

Performance drag custom engine tune + transmission tune (Westers Garage, Tilly Alberta.)

20" Custom Rims on 33's Cooper Zeon LTZ Tires

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zqzwgz.jpg

ms38w

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #3 on: 01/05/12 05:46 PM »

When they say a tune doesn't "make" power, they mean it can't make more than the motor is mechanically capable of making.  Gm (as with the others), is very conservative with the tunes to prevent us from breaking them (or the tranny, rear end, etc.) ( and likely to feed the oil companies).  They want a nice, civilized, smooth engine that compromised durability, longevity,power/performance, and fuel economy.  A tuner can "extract" what the motor has hidden within...to optimize the lobe seperation of the cam, reconfigure when the spark will fire and recalculate how much fuel/air to allow into the cylinders.  By maximizing these ratios, the engine can be "unlocked" to show it's true potential.  For example, my custom built engine was designed to handle well over 1300 HP and 1000 ft.lbs TQ, but by adjusting things like timing, it can be de-tuned to make say 800 HP...making the engine theoretically last longer as the envelope isn't being pushed to the limit.  If you take a 12v dc light bulb and only run 8v dc through it you extend the life of the bulb exponentially. It doesn't burn as bright, but lasts longer. The same holds true for your motor.
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<br />\\\\\\\'02 1500 Z71, with a few mods...<br />408 Stroker, H2 rear end, 6-speed manual,side pipes, shorty headers,8-lug wheels, 1-ton T-case, custom drive shafts.

we_fly_high

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #4 on: 01/05/12 11:02 PM »

Exactly, didn't mean to throw that out there and not explain it! Your motor is capable of a certain hp but only makes less because it is detuned by gm. Tune it properly and you get the hp back! Add more modifications and gain more overall hp. A dyno or street tune is the best way to go, its also why there more expensive! Im just gonna start paying ms38w to hptune my truck... but your tuner is right, by changing timing and all the other goods, you increase performance(that's already there, just locked away)
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2004 Pewter/Black Cammed, Stalled, Tuned, SOLD
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HOFFandGOLDMAN

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #5 on: 01/05/12 11:25 PM »

PERFECT! Makes loads of scene now! Thanks. So in both of your opinions a tuner is better than a chip in "unlocking" the engines potential? 
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2009 LT - Storm Gray - Leather - Sunroof - Leveling Kit

K&N 63 series cold air intake, Helix throttle body spacer

Single Magnaflow off-road performance exhaust, headers, catless

Performance drag custom engine tune + transmission tune (Westers Garage, Tilly Alberta.)

20" Custom Rims on 33's Cooper Zeon LTZ Tires

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zqzwgz.jpg

ms38w

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #6 on: 01/06/12 05:12 AM »

A "chip" only fools the computer into thinking the IAT or amount of oxygen present is different than what actually is, and the computer readjusts to the false conditions.  While this may give the feel of more performance, there are other variables that come into play with true performance modifications.  A handheld does a fine job at reprogramming the computer to respond to actual conditions (engine coolant temp:RPM, air/fuel ratios,timing, etc), and I think some can adjust transmission shift points and shift pressure, but not sure on that point.  A "tuner" can do all that a handheld can, and a lot more; adjust/remove torque management, increase fuel, adjust idle, tell the computer at what temperature to turn electric fans on/off(this comes in handy, as HP creats heat and heat robs HP...so adjusting the coolant temp through the electric fan cycle to optimize engine temp is like free HP).  Another advantage of a tuner is that he can make adjustments for heavily modified engines where a handheld can't...cam swap, cylinder bore/stroke changes, compression ratio changes...Many add-ons (turbo kits, supercharger kits) come with a handheld, but are only good for a specific engine configuration with the specific add-on.  For example, I swapped my 5.3L for a 6.0L out of an '05 GTO, bored/stroked it and threw on a couple turbos (let's not go there), swapped out my 4L80E transmission for a 6-speed manual trans, changed gearing, tire size, and much more.  A handheld couldn't touch it.  They are programmed for a stock motor with a specific change...off the shelf stuff, nothing too wild,crazy or exotic.  A good tuner will charge about the same price that you'd pay for a handheld, but can adjust his tune if it isn't spot on ( a handheld you get what you get...period),and most will re-tune if you change something down the road and need a re-tune.

  Sorry, we-fly-high, I'm still trying to figure out HPTuners myself.  I usually mess up a good tune rather than come up with anything benificial  :E: .  Nelson did my tune, and has been adjusting it over the last 3 years or so, but I think I have some build issues that I need to overcome before ANY tune can be nailed down.

« Last Edit: 01/06/12 03:09 PM by ms38w »
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<br />\\\\\\\'02 1500 Z71, with a few mods...<br />408 Stroker, H2 rear end, 6-speed manual,side pipes, shorty headers,8-lug wheels, 1-ton T-case, custom drive shafts.

we_fly_high

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #7 on: 01/06/12 12:35 PM »

Yup, you'll be an expert in a few years, I can wait at least until I get the blower setup going! Lol HG ill bet a custom tune over a chip or programmer any day!
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2004 Pewter/Black Cammed, Stalled, Tuned, SOLD
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ms38w

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #8 on: 01/06/12 03:12 PM »

To add to my previous post, I have heard of being able to download email tunes onto hand helds, but someone else will have to chime in there.
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<br />\\\\\\\'02 1500 Z71, with a few mods...<br />408 Stroker, H2 rear end, 6-speed manual,side pipes, shorty headers,8-lug wheels, 1-ton T-case, custom drive shafts.

HOFFandGOLDMAN

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Re: Expert advice
« Reply #9 on: 01/07/12 08:30 PM »

awesome thanks guys!
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2009 LT - Storm Gray - Leather - Sunroof - Leveling Kit

K&N 63 series cold air intake, Helix throttle body spacer

Single Magnaflow off-road performance exhaust, headers, catless

Performance drag custom engine tune + transmission tune (Westers Garage, Tilly Alberta.)

20" Custom Rims on 33's Cooper Zeon LTZ Tires

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zqzwgz.jpg
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