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Best Programmer

Which is the Best Programmer Available for our Av's?

  • Hypertech

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • Predator

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Diablo

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Edge Evolution

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Bully

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 32.0%

  • Total voters
    25

arizona-dave

SM 2010
Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Yeah Yeah...Lets do it, let open up the can of worms...Which handheld programmer is the best, and why?

Please provide your model, as each brand has newer/different models. Please dont click other and then say "Black Bear" or "Nelson" cuz those are not handheld/portable devices, and everyone pretty much knows they do a good job.

Thank you all!
 
I use the DiabloSport Predator U7194. I have bolted on a CAI & dual exhaust, and gotten a custom tune. My RWHP went from 230 stock to 280. My avg mpg went from 15.1 to 17.9. Still not nearly enough HP for such a heavy truck, and DiabloSport never programmed TCM support into it, but I don't have to worry about a 2nd ECM, and when I need to revert back to stock, it's only a 2-minute flash.

As requested, just my $.02
 
Thank man! So when you say you have gotten a custom tune, does that refer to the Diablo, or that you have done a Nelson/Black Bear Custom tune in the past, and decided to go with the Diablo now?

You still using reg 87 octane or bump to 89/91 ?

One more thing...With the Diablo, you plug in, Flash, unplug, and the new setting remain until you change or unplug the battery? Vs other some programmer need to stay plugged in?

Thanks again!

MightyMouse said:
I use the DiabloSport Predator U7194. I have bolted on a CAI & dual exhaust, and gotten a custom tune. My RWHP went from 230 stock to 280. My avg mpg went from 15.1 to 17.9. Still not nearly enough HP for such a heavy truck, and DiabloSport never programmed TCM support into it, but I don't have to worry about a 2nd ECM, and when I need to revert back to stock, it's only a 2-minute flash.

As requested, just my $.02
 
Hey there MightyM...I checked out Diablos Website, and it looks like your tuner does handle some Torque Management:
http://diablosport.com/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=98#Torque%20Management

Have you messed around with that?

MightyMouse said:
I use the DiabloSport Predator U7194. I have bolted on a CAI & dual exhaust, and gotten a custom tune. My RWHP went from 230 stock to 280. My avg mpg went from 15.1 to 17.9. Still not nearly enough HP for such a heavy truck, and DiabloSport never programmed TCM support into it, but I don't have to worry about a 2nd ECM, and when I need to revert back to stock, it's only a 2-minute flash.

As requested, just my $.02
 
They lie....or more correctly, skew and try not to tell the whole truth unless pressed. They do not support TCM programming at all, which is essential to properly address the TM issue. It's been a long standing sore point.
That aside, the predator is arguably the best of the handhelds...recommended if you can live with TM. Me, I "can't". It's a significant reason why I went to Nelson with this truck.
 
ltxi said:
They lie....or more correctly, skew and try not to tell the whole truth unless pressed. They do not support TCM programming at all, which is essential to properly address the TM issue. It's been a long standing sore point.
That aside, the predator is arguably the best of the handhelds...recommended if you can live with TM. Me, I "can't". It's a significant reason why I went to Nelson with this truck.
Well, not to stir the pot but, My Predator does have settings to adjust TM. I had it shut off until I lifted the truck and put bigger tires on it. I turned it back on with a lower than stock setting. I didn't want to go and start breaking parts.
 
What year Av? Diablo supported TM removal in the PCM, but not after GM split the engine and tranny functions into two modules...ECM/TCM...starting with the NBS in '07.
 
ltxi said:
What year Av? Diablo supported TM removal in the PCM, but not after GM split the engine and tranny functions into two modules...ECM/TCM...starting with the NBS in '07.
That clears that up. Mine's an 04 when it was still available. I'll take my foot out of my mouth now. :rolleyes:
 
No, no foot in mouth on your part; that would be a Diablo embarrasment. Their advertising continued to lead buyers to believe TM removal was supported when they released the 7194. They would only admit when asked directly and then tried to paper over the issue by suggesting most of it was addressed through engine (ECM) programming...utter crap. Even the most faithful called them out on that one.
 
Ok, so now we are getting some good info!!!

So just to be clear, Ohio, your saying that you can not only remove TM alltogether, but also just reduce TM on your 04 with the same Diablo programmer as ltxi is saying will not remove TM from an 07+

If this is the case, then the Diablo should be able to reduce/remove TM with my 05

Any other commends as far as real-work impacts on performance? Ive kinda been leaning toward a programmer that stays plugged in, so I can see the Dyno...but I dont know if I believe those Dynos, and not sure I want a full-time plugged in device to my ECU.

ltxi said:
No, no foot in mouth on your part; that would be a Diablo embarrasment. Their advertising continued to lead buyers to believe TM removal was supported when they released the 7194. They would only admit when asked directly and then tried to paper over the issue by suggesting most of it was addressed through engine (ECM) programming...utter crap. Even the most faithful called them out on that one.
 
Anyone Using the Hypertech HYPERPAC?

http://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Performance-Chips/Hypertech-HYPERpac
 
arizona-dave said:
Ok, so now we are getting some good info!!!

So just to be clear, Ohio, your saying that you can not only remove TM alltogether, but also just reduce TM on your 04 with the same Diablo programmer as ltxi is saying will not remove TM from an 07+

If this is the case, then the Diablo should be able to reduce/remove TM with my 05

Any other commends as far as real-work impacts on performance? Ive kinda been leaning toward a programmer that stays plugged in, so I can see the Dyno...but I dont know if I believe those Dynos, and not sure I want a full-time plugged in device to my ECU.

Sorry, I pinged on the later models and U7194 issues when MM brought it up. Forgot your truck has a PCM. The Predator should do well for you.
 
arizona-dave said:
Ok, so now we are getting some good info!!!

So just to be clear, Ohio, your saying that you can not only remove TM alltogether, but also just reduce TM on your 04 with the same Diablo programmer as ltxi is saying will not remove TM from an 07+

If this is the case, then the Diablo should be able to reduce/remove TM with my 05
...
Yes sir you are correct in reading that. I believe the 05 is a different model but you'd have to look at Diablo's site to verify. I know even though mine is vin locked to my Avy I've used it before to scanand clear codes on an 05. I haven't tried it on my wife's 05 yet to see if I can monitor real time readings with it locked to my vin.
 
Cool, thats how I interpreted everything just making sure. The difference in ability to control TM after 06 is pretty darn important Id say. Hopefully Diablo will address it.

With all that said, Ive read that Nelson Performance, and thru communication direct with them, that I can expect 30 additional HP to the wheels with their tune. Diablo claims 14-16 I think.

My question is that really the difference? Does Nelson really dial it in to get double the additional HP as Diablo? Or if you guys are not sure about that, then maybe just answer this:

Does the Diablo tuning provide enough additional HP with 89-91 octane, to make it really felt? Im not looking to hotrod, im looking for a tad more power towing, 10% is pretty good...5% not so good. With the price of the diablo roughly the same as a nelson tune, I want to make sure I go the correct rout. I want to make sure Im getting real HP gain, not just firmer shifts making it feel more powerful while romping the gas...know what I mean?

Reason im looking at Diablo is because I can change the tune back to stock in a heartbeat.

Thanks for all your input! Hopefully this helps me, and some others out.
 
I've used handhelds in the past and been happy with them for what they were. Although generally less convenient, I prefer the services of a good custom tuner and Nelson has been consistently excellent since pretty much forever. I don't get all wrapped around the axle over competing horsepower gain claims/advertising. Custom tuning, for street in particular, is about a lot more than simply more raw power.

And before I get hollered at by the tweakers, of which I used to be one, my focus for street vehicles is to find something that works really well and then unless desires or conditions change pretty much just leave it alone. Sometimes takes a few iterations.....less if you have a good handle on what you want as a result.
 
Thats what Im looking for, street real-world application. I want a little more help towing up hills, and need no more power while driving around town..Im heavy footed and all it will do is have me "contributing" to the local cities bank funds!  :laugh:

Lets face it, the 5.3L is a tad undersized for a truck weighing in what the AV does, and its not a overhead cam engine with 4 valves per cylinder, so there is only so much real power that can be pulled out of it while N/A.

Thats where custom tunes come in, and its more about the timing and A/F ratio than anything else with the custom tune, and then changes to the TM and shift points. After that, more power requires a Cam, pure and simple.

And Im sure I will get hell for this, but its true that CAI's dont give 10-15 more HP to the wheels, they provide better throttle response and probably 3-5 HP at WOT, exhaust same thing, 3-5 HP to the wheels at WOT. (I have both add-ons, neither turned my truck into a street dragster, and never will)

So that takes me back the Nelson I think...Ive read a lot about the handhelds, and I think im going to be happier overall with Nelson...plus if I change something, they send a revised tune for free, only pay for shipping...thats not bad in my opinion at all.




ltxi said:
I've used handhelds in the past and been happy with them for what they were. Although generally less convenient, I prefer the services of a good custom tuner and Nelson has been consistently excellent since pretty much forever. I don't get all wrapped around the axle over competing horsepower gain claims/advertising. Custom tuning, for street in particular, is about a lot more than simply more raw power.

And before I get hollered at by the tweakers, of which I used to be one, my focus for street vehicles is to find something that works really well and then unless desires or conditions change pretty much just leave it alone. Sometimes takes a few iterations.....less if you have a good handle on what you want as a result.
 
Sorry it took so long to reply, but I've been traveling & not online.

My custom tune was done by Lewis Eaton, commonly known on Diablo's forum as 06MonteSS. He has the full software suite for the DS. I tweaked my tune as much as I could, and he fine-tuned it. I downloaded it into the Predator, and as long as I don't revert back to stock, it stays in there. Once I do that, I have to retrieve the tune file from my laptop again.
And yes, the tune stays in the Av until I remove it.
 
Wow...so you saying that your able to get or create a custom tune file from a different source, upload that tune into the Diablo, and then Flash that tune into the truck ECU?

How does Monte create the tune? Does he do it using HP Tuners, or does he do it using his own Diablo and then saves the file?

Also, how many of the individual settings can you tweak with the Diablo? I thought the Diablo came preset with 5 or 6 tunes only...but by the sounds of it, you can go in and modify individual charactersistics thru the Diablo as well?

MightyMouse said:
Sorry it took so long to reply, but I've been traveling & not online.

My custom tune was done by Lewis Eaton, commonly known on Diablo's forum as 06MonteSS. He has the full software suite for the DS. I tweaked my tune as much as I could, and he fine-tuned it. I downloaded it into the Predator, and as long as I don't revert back to stock, it stays in there. Once I do that, I have to retrieve the tune file from my laptop again.
And yes, the tune stays in the Av until I remove it.
 
arizona-dave said:
1 Wow...so you saying that your able to get or create a custom tune file from a different source, upload that tune into the Diablo, and then Flash that tune into the truck ECU?

2 How does Monte create the tune? Does he do it using HP Tuners, or does he do it using his own Diablo and then saves the file?

3 Also, how many of the individual settings can you tweak with the Diablo? I thought the Diablo came preset with 5 or 6 tunes only...but by the sounds of it, you can go in and modify individual charactersistics thru the Diablo as well?
1 If you have the software like Monte does, you can alter a lot more parameters then you or I can with the tuner itself. He did mine to run my efans. I saved a file for him, emailed it to him, he tweaked it and emailed it back. I uploaded it to my Predator and then from there to my avy.

2 Special software

3 Monte will be able to answer that.
 
Very cool! I had no idea you could upload custom programs with the Diablo. Im thinking Monte has HP Tuners software, which Ive been debating on getting, but it requires a tech with experience and understanding of all the different values in the settings tables to make reliable changes...Ive heard stories of guys leaning out their A/F and burning a hole in their piston. So I will leave custom tuners to someone else for now.

Now, I need to go chat with Monte.

Thank you for the info Ohio!

ohiobellboy said:
1 If you have the software like Monte does, you can alter a lot more parameters then you or I can with the tuner itself. He did mine to run my efans. I saved a file for him, emailed it to him, he tweaked it and emailed it back. I uploaded it to my Predator and then from there to my avy.

2 Special software

3 Monte will be able to answer that.
 
No, Lew doesn't have HPT, he uses CMR tuning software, which is proprietary to DiabloSport. It's no different than taking your Av to a tuning shop & having them tune it for you right there. He did the same for me as OBB. Tweaked my tune file & emailed it back to me.
 
That Diablo software is expensive...$2500 +/- !!!

Im still debating between nelson tune or diablo...Im leaning towards Nelson because they will provide new tunes free of charge if I change something.

But then again, I would like the ability to switch back tunes without waiting for a new ECU...I may end up going both ways.

Question: If I get a Nelson Tune, can I download it to the Diablo and save as a file that I can then email and get tweaked from Lew?

MightyMouse said:
No, Lew doesn't have HPT, he uses CMR tuning software, which is proprietary to DiabloSport. It's no different than taking your Av to a tuning shop & having them tune it for you right there. He did the same for me as OBB. Tweaked my tune file & emailed it back to me.
 
arizona-dave said:
That Diablo software is expensive...$2500 +/- !!!

Im still debating between nelson tune or diablo...Im leaning towards Nelson because they will provide new tunes free of charge if I change something.

But then again, I would like the ability to switch back tunes without waiting for a new ECU...I may end up going both ways.

Question: If I get a Nelson Tune, can I download it to the Diablo and save as a file that I can then email and get tweaked from Lew?
Nope. It's apples vs oranges.
 
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