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Author Topic: 2011- what group size battery?  (Read 2203 times)
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DP425
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« on: 10/18/11 10:54 AM »

Looking at shifting my factory battery to the spare location and dropping an odyssey in the factory location- what group size/PN battery do I need?

I will be using the painless digital power manager to isolate them
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« Reply #1 on: 10/18/11 11:45 AM »

Group Size 48 I do believe, according to the odyssey website
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« Reply #2 on: 10/18/11 11:50 AM »

Have you looked at the Sears Diehard platinum Battery 
« Last Edit: 10/18/11 11:52 AM by MS03 2500 » Logged
DP425
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« Reply #3 on: 10/18/11 12:20 PM »

Have you looked at the Sears Diehard platinum Battery 

Actually, I have- I have used both their deep cycle marine versions and their automotive starting versions.  However, their use was in a light armored vehicle, not an automobile!  And I intend on price checking between the two and see if the year less warranty is worth the lower price.
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« Reply #4 on: 10/18/11 12:25 PM »

Just wanted to let you know the Platinum Batteries are made by odyssey for sears and are the same specs. 
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DP425
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« Reply #5 on: 10/18/11 01:51 PM »

Actually, they are not truly the same specs- built to the same standards I'd believe though.  I've been doing some research which I'll post below.  For me, the biggest thing going for the Odyssey right now is the fact that they have a group 48 battery.  I'm not really a fan of having a mis-sized battery, even if it does more than what I want it to do.  Maybe I'm just odd on that.  Did it in my old truck and it always bothered me seeing a larger tray than I had battery!

Odyssey PC1220, Top-Post
Group: 48/94R
Dimensions: 11.89"L x 6.88"W x 7.48"H
CCA: 680 @ 0F
CA/MCA: 860 @ 32F
RC: 135

Optima Yellow Top, Top/Side Post
Group: D34/78
Dimensions: 10"L x 6.875"W x 7.8125"H
CCA: 750 @ 0F
CA:
RC: 120

Sears DieHard Platinum Auto, Top/Side Post
Group: 34/78
Dimensions: 10.9"L x 7.1"W x 7.8"H
CCA: 880 @ 0F
CA:
RC: 135

Sears DieHard Platinum Marine, Top Post
Group: 34M
Dimensions: 10.9"L X 6.8"W x 7.9"H
CCA: 880 @ 0F
CA:
RC: 135
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DP425
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« Reply #6 on: 10/18/11 01:55 PM »

Of course, it may very well have the same specs as one of the same group size.  But if I buy odyssey, it will be of the correct size, so for my purposes, I'm comparing the options of what I would put in my truck.

I'm just curious if the marine and auto versions of the platinum are really that different.  They seem to spec out the same.
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« Reply #7 on: 10/18/11 01:56 PM »

Ok you are right I don't know
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« Reply #8 on: 10/19/11 12:13 AM »

I'm new to the Avalanche family and just wanted to know why you're swapping out your factory battery?
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« Reply #9 on: 10/19/11 12:38 AM »

I'm new to the Avalanche family and just wanted to know why you're swapping out your factory battery?

He's adding a battery so now he'll have 2 batteries that are isolated from each other which is a good idea for some situations. I did it on my last truck
Alan Cheers!
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« Reply #10 on: 10/19/11 01:17 AM »

He's adding a battery so now he'll have 2 batteries that are isolated from each other which is a good idea for some situations. I did it on my last truck
Alan Cheers!

Thanks for your reaponse Thumbs up!... when you say key situations can you fill me in on a few examples?
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« Reply #11 on: 10/19/11 02:45 AM »

Ok you are right I don't know

Yeah technically I guess I am.  But I don't put much weight in CCA's anyway.  RC and the fast discharge amp rating is what I'm interested in.  Of course the second is not available for the sears batteries, but one would think it's similar to the odyssey line- which is typically 3-5 times greater than conventional lead acid starting batteries.  I mean, I don't know about anyone else but I usually only crap my engine for 1-5 seconds... never 20-30 as required by the CCA test.
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« Reply #12 on: 10/19/11 04:41 AM »

I know on the older ones you could get a 34/78 in there, but the brace will not fit on top of it. So I'm pretty sure you can also that will open more brands for you
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« Reply #13 on: 10/19/11 05:19 AM »

Thanks for your reaponse Thumbs up!... when you say key situations can you fill me in on a few examples?

The biggest two reasons are either for running a winch or a high watt inverter.  Secondary reasons are, the ability to run add-on lights as well as factory lights with the engine off for whatever purpose you may have, keeping your stereo running for a long period of time without leaving you unable to start the vehicle.  Also, anything you can imagine which will draw a very high load for a short period of time.  Having a second battery acts to sort of "stiffen" your electrical system.  Think about it like this: You have a load that will draw a battery from the standard system charging volts of 13.5 down to 11.5 in 10 seconds of use.  Now if you add a second battery of the same capacity, that 10 seconds will only drop the two batteries down to 12.5 volts.  In other words, it keeps your system closer to the ideal charging range, allowing it to operate more efficiently.
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« Reply #14 on: 10/19/11 05:22 AM »

I know on the older ones you could get a 34/78 in there, but the brace will not fit on top of it. So I'm pretty sure you can also that will open more brands for you

Yeah, but I can't think of any other reputable premium brands that make dual use deep discharge AGM batteries.  I may pick up the 34/78 from sears and run that until I get around to getting the odyssey, then just move it over to the 2nd location and pull the OEM battery out all-together.
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« Reply #15 on: 10/19/11 05:46 AM »

The biggest two reasons are either for running a winch or a high watt inverter.  Secondary reasons are, the ability to run add-on lights as well as factory lights with the engine off for whatever purpose you may have, keeping your stereo running for a long period of time without leaving you unable to start the vehicle.  Also, anything you can imagine which will draw a very high load for a short period of time.  Having a second battery acts to sort of "stiffen" your electrical system.  Think about it like this: You have a load that will draw a battery from the standard system charging volts of 13.5 down to 11.5 in 10 seconds of use.  Now if you add a second battery of the same capacity, that 10 seconds will only drop the two batteries down to 12.5 volts.  In other words, it keeps your system closer to the ideal charging range, allowing it to operate more efficiently.

I see... I've always owned cars and have never experienced voltage issues except for the time I spent with high end audio systems.

Thanks for the information Cheesy
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« Reply #16 on: 10/19/11 08:10 AM »

The only thing that fits without work in the NBS is a Group 48. Besides the obvious fit issues, the battery pan isn't flat...contoured for specifically the group 48. The Odyssey 1220 is the only Group 48 AGM out there as far as I know and it's a recent addition to the line. Best street price I could come up with a couple of months a months ago when I replaced mine was $320 shipped from a reliable on line source. Great battery, fit perfectly, no regrets at all on the cost.
« Last Edit: 10/19/11 08:13 AM by ltxi » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: 10/19/11 12:00 PM »

I have 2010 ltz. Can you put in a sears die hard platinum battery if its not a group 48
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« Reply #18 on: 10/19/11 01:17 PM »

I don't have the NBS and ltxi said there is something different about the tray. I'll have to search around thursday there should be something out there.
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« Reply #19 on: 10/19/11 03:57 PM »

The only thing that fits without work in the NBS is a Group 48. Besides the obvious fit issues, the battery pan isn't flat...contoured for specifically the group 48. The Odyssey 1220 is the only Group 48 AGM out there as far as I know and it's a recent addition to the line. Best street price I could come up with a couple of months a months ago when I replaced mine was $320 shipped from a reliable on line source. Great battery, fit perfectly, no regrets at all on the cost.

Oh man what a pain.  Guess I'll just order it next week.  And $320 was the best I could find as well.
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« Reply #20 on: 10/19/11 04:07 PM »

I see... I've always owned cars and have never experienced voltage issues except for the time I spent with high end audio systems.

Thanks for the information Cheesy

Yup, very common for high end audio to run more than one battery for the very reason I mentioned.  Although more common are capacitors.  Either way, in any such application, capacitors and additional batteries are a band-aid for a sucking chest wound.  Since audio is more of a continuous duty draw, adding batteries and capacitors only help prevent system surges; end of the day, if you are averaging 150amps on your stereo but have a 120amp alternator, no amount of "stiffening" will solve your problem.  Those solutions work best for short and very short durration high amp draws, and extra reserve power.

I always laugh to myself when I over hear guys talking about their stereo causing their lights to dim and what not, and then come up with using a cap to "solve" the problem.  The problem isn't in the storage area, it's in the production area.  So you're going from fluctuation of a low of 10.9 volts to a high of 13.5 volts to allowing the system to maintain a steady 12.4 volts- still less than free-state charge of a battery, and causing the alternator to run at 100%.  Saves the regulator, but fries the alternator.
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« Reply #21 on: 10/19/11 06:47 PM »

For what it's worth, I've been using the Sears DieHard Platinum 34/78DT for a few years now.  Sounds like you're not going this route, but it may prove useful to those interested:

As mentioned previously, it is widely believed (with good reason) that the Sears Platinum batteries are manufactured by EnerSys Energy Products, Inc., which happens to be the same company that manufactures the Odyssey batteries.  Click here for Sears press release stating as much.

The equivalent (read:identical) Odyssey battery to the Platinum 34/78DT would be the Odyssey PC1500DT.  Identical specs, different casing color.  Info I pulled from a random GIS:

Quote
I called EnerSys Inc. headquarters in Colomubia, Maryland, and was referred to their Warrensburg, Missouri, plant, and specifcally to plant Engineer Scott Lichte (660-429-7556). Scott confirmed the following:
    
  • That particular plant is the only place in the world that make the Odyessy battery, and it is also the only place where the Diehard Platinum is manufactured.
  • The Odyessy PC1500 DT is the exact same battery as the Diehard 34/78DT, the only difference at all is the color of the plastic.
  • Sears has a larger customer base than Odyessy so they buy stock in much greater quantity which drives the resale cost down for the customer as compared to Odyessy.
  • There is no difference in connecting to the top terminals of this battery versus the side terminals, all operation is identical between the two sets.
  • A draw of 700 amps at 9V would last about 1.5 minutes with this battery (engine off of course).

(link)


Take it with a grain of salt -- it's just word of mouth (unless you want to try calling that plant engineer for yourself).  Though, there seems to be some validity to it, as the specs appear identical between the two batteries.  If they are made by the exact same company, and the specs are the same, what are the odds that they are made at the exact same plant?  Why pay extra for Odyssey if you have no facts to indicate that the two batteries are any different?  If the specs and warranty are identical, why not save yourself some money?  Okay, I'll stop berating you with rhetorical questions.

I don't recall the Platinum 34/78DT requiring any drastic modification to get it bolted into the factory 2007 battery tray location, but perhaps my memory fails me.  I may have used a spare battery hold-down bracket I had laying around, or perhaps it came with one -- I don't remember.  If you're at all mechanically inclined, I'm sure you can figure something out.

The reviews on Sears seem to indicate a possible structural integrity issue with the battery's side-terminals, but it seems those were regarding batteries purchased circa 2007-2009 -- it's possible that EnerSys redesigned them since then.  Regardless, I'd stick with the top terminals if you go this route -- I used the top terminals without incident.  The only negative reviews for the battery are from those who used the side-terminals with subsequent mechanical failure.  The single 4-star rating was from someone who gave the battery a 5-star rave review, but "didn't want Sears to get too smug and stop working on the battery" and gave it a 4-star for that reason.  That makes sense.  not.  (Sears 34/78DT Link)



I'm not running a dual battery setup (as I don't have any power-hungry accessories to necessitate it), but I think this would be a very decent choice for a primary "starting" battery in a dual battery application.

It's cheaper to replace if something goes wrong, and it's got 880 cold-cranking amps (@ 0F), which is +265 CCA more than my previous battery.  That translates to about 1100CA @ 32F, or 1275 HCA @ 80F.  I personally tend to value cold cranking amps (CCA) above reserve capacity (RC) for a starting purposes, as I'm mostly concerned about getting my truck started in winter weather (-when the car's electrical demands are greater + I hate being cold).  And if a battery can supply that for 30-seconds, it can definitely do it for 5.  Starter motors generally require greater power (high energy over a short period of time), upwards of 500 amps over a few seconds of cranking, rather than prolonged use at a comparatively-miniscule 25 amps used for testing reserve capacity.  If you live in a warmer southern climate year-round, RC is more important, but the 34/78DT has awesome RC ratings as well.

Assuming the Odyssey PC1500DT and the DieHard Platinum 34/78DT are the same battery, the fast discharge rates are as follows:

Quote
1,500 amps for 5 seconds  <-- PHCA
1,280 amps for 10 seconds
1,170 amps for 15 seconds
1,100 amps for 20 seconds

It's worked well for me thus far -- engine always starts right up with no hesitation, even after the truck sat for a few weeks in the winter.  I'll likely buy it again in the event that this one fails.  Of course, your mileage may vary, but I don't think you'll find a better "starting" battery at a similar price-point.
« Last Edit: 10/19/11 08:45 PM by Alexander » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: 10/20/11 08:52 AM »

I have 2010 ltz. Can you put in a sears die hard platinum battery if its not a group 48

Yes, you could get a Group 34, much preferably 34R, in there but it's not a straight R&R. Group 48 is the only thing that will fit without some level of mods. Odyssey isn't selling the 48 to Sears at the moment/yet.
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« Reply #23 on: 10/20/11 09:06 AM »

Oh man what a pain.  Guess I'll just order it next week.  And $320 was the best I could find as well.


West Coast Batteries. Just throwing that out there in case anyone's interested. Usually next day ship, properly packaged, and two days in transit to Denver via UPS Ground.

Look at it this way, it's only roughly $100 more than Sears after tax to avoid the hassle and unless you keep your truck "forever", it's a one time cost.
« Last Edit: 10/20/11 09:08 AM by ltxi » Logged

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